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Subject: CRAWLEY LICENSED CAB DRIVERS ASSOCIATION
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TonyUser is Offline
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10 May 2007 1:15 PM Alert 

CRAWLEY LICENSED CAB DRIVERS ASSOCIATION

 

 

Local cab associations can be a grind for a variety of reasons mostly to do with the variety of individual axes! However a few bright sparks can hone a committee into an effective tool to battle for drivers. In Crawley we formed our current association:-  The Crawley Licensed Cab Drivers, in 2005 in response to an influx of cabs/drivers licensed by Mole Valley D.C.  We accept both PHV and Hackney members as, although there is also a Hackney Association in town, we felt that there was more common ground than reasons to remain separate.  In our first year we attracted nearly 130 members who were all very cross about Mole Valley licensing within our borders!

We received a lot of help and information from the NPHA and have written several times to Mole Valley with the latest reproduced here................ The Department for Transport was our next destination and we sent them this letter following "the silent treatment" from MV ...................We and our local MP Laura Moffatt, await their response with anticipation.  Crawley Borough Council have also tried to dissuade MVDC from their misguided actions but " it isn't the done thing for one council to take another to court " . They could of course take an operator to court for using cars/drivers not licensed by Crawley as in the case of Murtagh and Carter  v Bromsgrove DC  which was decided in 1999 in the High Court, but they have not.......yet!

The other major issue which has exercised our minds has been our desire to change our vinyl door stickers into magnetic ones so that our cars are not targeted for break-ins and drivers can have a family/social life without being pestered, often rudely.  You know the scenario, " Get on to your office mate and find out where my cab is / book me a cab / change the time etc etc ."  Driver replies " I'm sorry, I'm not on duty / going shopping / to the cinema / visiting my sick Mother."  Then you get the understanding reply " I don't give a XXXX, just get on to your control and do as I say." Well I can tell you Crawley BC also didn't give a XXXX for our plea for a change. Their "Policy Forum" wouldn't even forward it to the Executive for a decision. They obviously value their vinyl over drivers privacy and security. Shame they can't show the same resolve in tackling Mole Valley, but we've not given up yet!

Like many readers, we've had our share of abuse / runners / threats and violence which has been growing worse over the last few years. Back in November a Hackney driver was stabbed, on a Sunday afternoon! Luckily it wasn't too serious and the lowlifes were caught, but it was the camel's straw for CLCDA.  We wrote to the council and police asking for funding support for In -car CCTV. Our local paper "The Crawley News" , with whom we have a good relationship asked for comments on the attack which we were happy to provide even though expletives were deleted! This was picked up by BBC Southern Counties radio who wanted to do a telephone interview......live.....at 0800..... two days after Christmas!!!!  Nerves? Me? Thanks to a cordless phone. I was sat in bed with my Wife and a cup of coffee being questioned about the dangers of a cabbies life and the virtues of CCTV.  Crawley Council were represented by the Manager responsible for licensing, Tony Baldock. He was very positive and live on air, committed the Council to investigate the availability of funds. All 15 listeners were riveted by our lively debate at such an early hour and sank back into their pillows to retreat into their less surreal dreamworlds!  BBC South TV were our next suitors. Their Editor must have been one of the 15 and was so impressed that my Chairman, Zainool Ebrahim and I were engaged to be interviewed on camera  ( but at least it wasn't live). The consumation of our betrothal to BBC TV was a short feature shown on South Today!

After a few weeks we heard from Crawley Council that funds were available under the crime and disorder reduction partnership, to assist CCTV installations to the tune of £250 per car. There are rules to follow such as working late/nights especially Fri/Sat but that's only fair. The monies are not unlimited though and are targeted  20% Hackney and 10 % PHV.

The CLCDA has worked with Crawley Council for the benefit of ALL cab drivers in Crawley and will continue to do so. We don't always agree with our Council but we don't demonise them either. All of  this shows that  with willing individuals,  local associations can work.       Please take note 

Mr Flanagan.

 

John Fraser

Secretary CLCDA

 

Letter 1

CRAWLEY LICENSED CAB DRIVERS ASSOCIATION

 

 

Dear Mr. Mepham,

 

LICENSING BY MOLE VALLEY DC OF CRAWLEY BASED PRIVATE HIRE OPERATORS,THEIR DRIVERS AND CARS

 

 

I wrote to you on the 8th March 2007  asking that you carry out one of two actions. Either explain to us how your actions are legal, or cease to issue licenses outside your administrative area. You have apparently done neither.

 

When our Chairman wrote to Mr Pleasance from your Licensing Section in August 2006, he responded with a justification drawn from Mr James Button's respected book "TAXIS - Licensing Law and Practice".

 

In our letter of 11th October 2006 we pointed out the incorrect interpretation your Officer  had placed on the passage quoted from Mr. Button's book. We also listed three landmark High Court cases which established the precedent that Operators Licenses used outside their issuers administrative area are of no legal standing as a defence to using cars/drivers from that area, within the Operators home borough.

 

Taking all the above facts together with your lack of response, I must now conclude that you realise your actions are malfeasant.

 

I would advise you that we will now be expanding our efforts in every sphere to re-establish local democratic control of Private Hire Operators, cars and drivers in Crawley and the surrounding areas.

 

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

John B Fraser

Secretary CLCDA

 

cc Mr M. Coughlin Chief Executive CBC

     Mrs. L. Moffatt MP

 

 

letter 2

18/4/07

Department for Transport

Great Minster House

 

Dear Sirs,

LICENSING OF PRIVATE HIRE OPERATORS, DRIVERS AND CARS

I would be most grateful if you could clarify a question on the interpretation of the 1976 Local Govt ( Miscellaneous Provisions ) Act. This has come about because Mole Valley DC has Licensed PH operators, cars and drivers in Crawley and other areas eg Reigate & Banstead.

Our understanding of the law is as stated in a Dept of Transport letter dated 25th June 1992, which was addressed to the District Secretary of Bromsgrove District Council.

Paragraph 3 states:-

    "In our view applying section 80(2) to sections 46(1)(d) and(e) has the effect that an

     operator  requires a license  from the area in which he  intends to operate and may

     operate only in that area vehicles and drivers licensed by the same district. This has

     the practical effect that an operator licensed in area  A  may only use vehicles and

     drivers  licensed  in  area  A  but  these  vehicles  and drivers will  by virtue  of  the 

     section 75(2) exemption be able to go anywhere in the course of a hiring."

This letter was quoted by Lord Justice Kennedy in the case of Dittah and Choudhry  v  Birmingham City Council 󞩹] , in his judgement he states:-

     "That in my  judgement  is an accurate  statement of the law  whatever may have

       been  said  elsewhere in  the  past."

My first query is simple, is the law as stated above or has there been a change in interpretation of the Act?  Secondly , if the law is as above what can be done about Mole Valley DC issuing licenses outside their own administrative area?

Thank you for your help in this matter.

Yours Faithfully

 

 

John B Fraser , Secretary CLCDA

 

 


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yozzaUser is Offline
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10 May 2007 8:07 PM Alert 
so it does work getting local press involved and on side, even better you've got it partly funded
WELL DONE CRAWLEY ASSOCIATION
have you read the above mr GMB
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11 May 2007 8:51 PM Alert 

well done you lot. did you have any guidance from else where ? 

GMB BRANCH SEC LONDONUser is Offline

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12 May 2007 1:27 PM Alert 

 Indeed Mr GMB has read all of the above, and will congratulate unreservedly the Association, it would appear to be VERY professional efficient and whats more .SUCCESFULL  If only all associations were as good. However as a trade unionists i and many generations of us believe in the NECESSITY of Unionisation and all that goes with it! I note the ass only represents Hacks and would appear to have substantial problems with PH, which of course reflects the unfortunate history of our trade ie worker against worker. For us all to progress this issue must be resolved.Is it possibble?????

Only had one dealing with Crawley Council  a member of ours had lost his driving licence on a drink drive incident, he was marginally over the limit and was banned for 1 year, after serving his ban Crawley Council tried to withold his PH licence for a further 2 years. this we considerd to be grossly unfair and maybe double jeapordy . We took legal advice and proceeded with a court action where we succesfully challenged the council and our member obtained his licence!

DECISIONS ARE TAKEN BY THOSE THAT TURN UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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12 May 2007 7:09 PM Alert 

you praise with one hand terry then have a dig with the other, almost bemoaning crawley for representing hacks. well here where i am we have 2 associations ph & hack, so do you have a problem with us then terry

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12 May 2007 10:40 PM Alert 

No bemoaning, they appear a credible group, we believe both sections of the industry should work together.I have no intimate knowledge of the Crawley situation. but they outline their problems wth PH i think we should attempt to solve those problems in-house, not enrich lawyers!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DECISIONS ARE TAKEN BY THOSE THAT TURN UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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13 May 2007 7:22 PM Alert 
As a member of the Crawley Assn I can confirm that most members are PH but we also have Hackney members.
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13 May 2007 7:40 PM Alert 
batus, we got all the case law fron NPHA and telephone advice, but what we did with it and the letters etc were our own. ( Thank you Bryan and any Independent Assn should join the NPHA )

ps No we're not the NPHA in disguise.
NICKUser is Offline

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13 May 2007 8:16 PM Alert 

It looks like your lad's did a good job, and Brian Rowlands advice is usually spot on.

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13 May 2007 8:19 PM Alert 
It's not the only place that this is happening, keep your eyes on Newcastle... and you might like to have a word with Wayne Casey of the NTA...
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13 May 2007 9:10 PM Alert 
Posted By NICK on 13 May 2007 8:16 PM

It looks like your lad's did a good job, and Brian Rowlands advice is usually spot on.



it doesnt matter where from you got the advice, as long as the advice was correct, but it was you and the members that pulled it off well done

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13 May 2007 9:12 PM Alert 
Posted By NICK on 13 May 2007 8:19 PM
It's not the only place that this is happening, keep your eyes on Newcastle... and you might like to have a word with Wayne Casey of the NTA...



is capt c aware to what your refering ? 

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13 May 2007 9:15 PM Alert 
Posted By allo-allo on 13 May 2007 7:40 PM
batus, we got all the case law fron NPHA and telephone advice, but what we did with it and the letters etc were our own. ( Thank you Bryan and any Independent Assn should join the NPHA )

ps No we're not the NPHA in disguise.



would it matter if you were as the NTA and GMBPDB are on here

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14 May 2007 3:47 PM Alert 

Anybody hears of GADA Gatwick Airport Drivers Ass, we had seceral meetings with them some years ago, it looked like a deal was on the cards, but someone wanted a job and 5oo lumps a week  that wasnt available so the deal was scupperd, the driver whose licence we saved was a member of this outfit and GMBPDB. Subsequently had a call saying would we assist in a judicial reveue cost £25 000, i think you can guess the reply!!

All drivers in GADA working for CHECKER CARS. we have a recognition agreement with them at Stansted that works very well, we represented 2 drivers  on offences where they faced driving bans succesfully, one non member employed a barrister at the cost of £800 and  received a year ban, guess what he then saw the light and joined the GMBPDB we recently negotiated fares increases and it was the easiest negs id ever been involved in good company, they like is we like them the members appear content! now theres a dangerous situation?????????????????????

ORGANISE EDUCATE AGITATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


NATIONAL ORGANISER GMB PDB
EddieUser is Offline

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14 May 2007 6:26 PM Alert 

good response terry why cant you always be so civil, it does work.

have you any other cases you can refer to...........?

 

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14 May 2007 7:38 PM Alert 
Eddie thank you, unfortunately I cant refer to any other cases in that area [Crawley] this is the type of thing we achieve in London continously, many drivers are on the road due to our abilitys, and one or two in Brighton.
DECISIONS ARE TAKEN BY THOSE THAT TURN UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NATIONAL ORGANISER GMB PDB
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14 May 2007 10:21 PM Alert 
these drivers in Brighton are they ph or hack
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16 May 2007 11:41 AM Alert 
Both we wont discriminate, we want to see both sections co-operating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
UNITED YOU STAND DIVIDED YOU FALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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16 May 2007 7:17 PM Alert 
GMB YOU HAVE NO OTHER CASES TO MENTION SUCH AS CRAWLEY AS YOU ACHIEVE THESE THINGS IN LONDON.


WILL YOU FORGET ABOUT LONDON AND CONCENTRATE ON THE REAL WORLD FOR A MOMENT.


THERES LIFE IN THE PROVENCES ASWELL YOU NO.


AND BECAUSE YOU ONLY THINK OF LONDON WHICH MAKES YOU NARROW MINDED YOU WONT EVER BE ANYTHING OUT SIDE OF LONDON ........ !!!
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17 May 2007 5:43 PM Alert 
Bully Beef we can only refer to our successes where they occur.Most of our membership is currently in London & Brighton with a new branch being formed in Gateshead. Now ithought you might have figured out we are spreading our wings far and wide and will of course be able to be equally succesfull for our members NATIONWIDE. Now tell me what part of the PROVINCES are you in??????
ORGANISE EDUCATE AGITATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NATIONAL ORGANISER GMB PDB

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